Feb. 11, 2016 Today's Good Ideas

I'm writing down these activities before I forget them:

• In FYC, I had students DRAW the evidence that they will submit to me at the end of the ICO Project.
• Today was a workshop on finalizing the ICO Proposal Memo. Students had drafted on Tuesday and given that draft to me. In my reading of and commenting on the drafts, I noticed that many were not thinking in terms of concrete evidence for the successful completion of their project, so I came up with this idea:
• Visualize what your evidence (worth 50 points!) will look like on May 3
• Draw that visualization
• The best ones were detailed: 10 worksheets, 5 poems, 15 punctuation tests
• The not-best ones were metaphorical (a colorful bee to represent spelling) or process-oriented (stick figure going to the Writing Center)
•  
• In EXPRESS, after the usual "paragraph buster" and "color-coding hamburger" exercise, I had students text the folks who were not in class to say we missed them.
• Prentia - Abdul, Jacorey, Blong
• Katie - Abbey, Payton, Vanessa
• Lorena - Jen, Diedre, Ben

Wonderful student email

This morning's email--what a gem.

Last night's American Nature Writers class was the "report out" for students' Field Observations. I invited the editor-in-chief of the Minnesota Conservation Volunteer magazine because she's interested in hearing new voices in the magazine.

Hi Julie, ​

Yesterday's class was awesome! Thank you for creating a space that allows us to be authentic.  It was nice to have Kathleen about of our class to hear her feedback which lines up with yours and the gentle way you encourage us to do and be more. 

Love, love, love the Minnesota Conservation Volunteer Booklet.

I have attached my Field Note Reflection Paper.

See you next week!

Student

More cleaning up email

Student emails:

1)
Julie,

I just got a call my daughter got poked in the eye with a stick and it is scratched. I wont make I have to take her to the hospital. Please let me know what will be due on Wednesday. 

Thank you,
Student

2)
Hey Professor Daniels,

Sorry to have send this late notice but I have an family emergency so I won't be able to make it to class today. I apologize for the lack of performance but I am definitely getting the assignments. 

3)
My name is Student Lastname I start class on Monday with you. My FASFA hasn't come in yet so I am just letting you know I won't have any supplies until I get fanatical aid comes in. Thank you, see you Monday!

4)
Professor Daniels,

Thank you for getting back to me. My daughters knee is on the mend with physical therapy now. I completely forgot about emailing you on your Century email. My apologies.

To add insult to injury (literally) while my daughter was laid up on the couch, she spilled her entire bowl of soup on my lap top while she was playing games and didn't know what to do so she just closed it ad waited for me to get home from work. After it dried out, I learned that it is not going to be working again. I was able to get  new computer today, about an hour ago. The insult part is that I had y reading journals saved on it. I can re type them not a big deal but I wasn't using the "template". I have not had to do anything like this before, so if you wouldn't mind if after class I can chat with you a bit to make sure I am understanding it all. In your previous email it stated to state it to the original journal entry... Are we supposed to be doing two entries, or is that if we write it our first?

I kinda feel like a lost puppy with this right now. haha. Hoping you can help me so I am understanding what all I need to be doing properly.

Thank you,

Student Lastname

Save this

I am cleaning out my email inbox and I found this message from a year ago: I want to save it.

LIT 342 Thank You!
This is Terry Vu.  Thank you for replying. After reading Tim O'Brien " In the Field ", I feel a little bit change in me.  I like the sentence in the story that say "When a man died, there had to be blame". (p 2742) I guess  when I failed the essay, I blame your harsh grading style.  I could blame my work that require manditory 60 hours weekly. I could blame that I have to spend too much time with my son or go to the inlaw every Sunday.  Anyways, I appologize for blamming you.  I know my paper deserve a F, but hoping for a F+ instead of an F-.  That is what I meant, not that I expect to get an C or something like that.  50% is motivating.  30% is killing me slowly. hehe.  Anyway, have a wonderful week.
Terry

I needed this

Last night was the final class meeting for my Intro to GLBT Studies class: students planned a potluck, so we had a lot of cookies and pop, and although I did some teaching, mostly we celebrated and shared what we'd learned.

One student who's been struggling to come to class (and complete assignments!) said something that surprised me when it was her turn to talk: she said that she hasn't ever been one to speak up in class, but she's felt safe to do so in our class. That experience has enabled her to speak up in her other classes, too: she's gotten brave.

I felt proud about that! And then this morning, I checked into the class's webpage, and I found this message from her:

Subject: A letter to my favorite class <3 br="br">

First of all, I want to say that I feel so blessed to have met each and every one of you. You are all beautiful people. This class has meant so much to me, probably more than any of you will ever know. Like I said in tonights class, because of you all I was able to break from my shell and show you who I really am. Thank you so much for always accepting my thoughts and opinions with open arms. This class has had a tremendous impact on me as a person, and I will always carry that with me. You all will remain in my heart forever. Thank you, Julie for providing such a wonderful learning environment, and being a marvelous teacher. You are an amazing woman. Thank you all.

Much love,

[Student] (:

A Student's Plea

I have my FYComposition students write about our college's Common Blook on a blog. Those posts are supposed to be about any aspect of what they've read in that book, The Grace of Silence this year.

Here's one student's post from a couple of weeks ago: he's older, maybe 45, from Ethiopia, and was certain to tell me what was wrong with President Obama and why he voted for Romney. The irony: he has now dropped the class because of my "grading system," even though he has had trouble following directions all semester (writing essays on topics he wants to write about instead of the assignments I've given; giving me the impression that he'd followed my advice to sign up for an ESOL Directed Grammar Study course but not doing it; posting about all kinds of things, not the common book, as you see below):


Keepup

Learning English language is my goal at Century College. The language is harder than any three other languages I speak, write, and read. However, I believe English language is the most important language too. Because, it is the 3rd most popular and modernize language that many people uses today to communicate to each other. You the native speaker you should proud of this, speaking the language. Please, develop it, share it and keep it.

Some resreachs has been done. For example, the Saint Ignatius high school of OH, showes, The World's Most Widely Spoken Languages

"The Summer Institute for Linguistics (SIL) Ethnologue Survey (1999) lists the following as the top languages by population:
(number of native speakers in parentheses)

1. Chinese* (937,132,000)
2. Spanish (332,000,000)
3. English (322,000,000)
4. Bengali (189,000,000)
5. Hindi/Urdu (182,000,000)
6. Arabic* (174,950,000)
7. Portuguese (170,000,000)
8. Russian (170,000,000)
9. Japanese (125,000,000)
10. German (98,000,000)
11. French* (79,572,000)."

.So please, keep developing it, sharing it and keeping well it. Because many people need it, not just you.

And please help us to learn better and be inpatient with us too. I appreciate that.

Another student email

Community college students have such complicated lives. Here's one story. 


"Sarah" was in my Engl 90 class, a developmental level writing class designed to get students ready for Comp 1. "Sarah" was doing pretty well; she often stayed to herself in class, tucked up at a corner computer near my desk, checking her phone for text messages all the time, writing pretty thoughtful prose.


I wrote an email to her (see the bottom), and she responded today:

Hello Ms. Daniels,

I apologize that it took me so long to respond back to this email. I have been extremely busy lately trying to get myself together. I meant to get in contact with you to tell you my situation but I guess now will be the perfect time. I had to withdraw from all of my classes due to the high level of stress I was dealing with. Not only that but I am far out in [suburb] at a battered womens shelter. After being done with being a victim of domestic violence I had to escape as soon as possible. Although ever since I withdrew from all of my courses I have regretted it so much because I really did want to finish the semester off the right way. But don't think I won't go back to college it's just going to be put on the back burner right now. I still have my dreams of earning my degree in medical field. Well I appreciate the concern and thought I tell you where I'm at in my life right now. I enjoyed taking your course ans you're a wonderful instructor to be around. Also one last thing I was wondering if you would be a reference for The Salvation Army [Housing] Program? I am hoping and praying I get accepted into this program so I can get my life back on track. 

Sincerely, 

"Sarah Student" 

________________________________________
From: julie.daniels@century.edu [julie.daniels@century.edu]
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 3:56 PM
To: "Sarah Student"
Subject: Engl 90

Dear "Sarah",

I just noticed that you dropped our course! Why? I hope everything is okay because you were on track to pass the class.

Please let me know how you are.

Sincerely,
Julie

End-of-Semester Letter

Here's an email I just received: he sent it last night after our last class meeting. He's sent many over the semester, mainly pleading for a different grade. We'll see what he wrote for his final essay . . . !

Hi professor Daniels.  I just want to thank you for the interesting experiences in the course.  I did learn a lot from all the authors.  While I rewrite the totally new essay 2, I remember that you told the class "in all  your years of teaching, only one student got a lower grade when rewriting the essay."  I could possibly be the 2nd person in your career.  I will accept any score that you give.  I truly wish you will have a wonderful Summer.  Take care

Terry

He's right that I have only had one experience where the student earned a lower grade after revising: he could be the second since he didn't take my advice about revising; instead, he wrote a whole new essay. Usually when students do that, they end up with about the same grade because they make the same errors on the new essay.

*Sigh*.

My students

Do university faculty get email messages like this one?


been sick most of the week with migraines and getting sick so i will not be able to make it. i will email my work when our internet is fixed as well , im sending this on my phone , i was going to email you on tuesday but any sort of light made things worse. i will be going into the doctor if this continues . sorry again :(

Community College Students

Would professors at a university get an email like this? Does it mean I'm approachable? Or that I don't have appropriate boundaries?
Julie,

I thought i would tell you in advance that Thursday i had passed out at work and got a concussion from my head hitting concrete floor. I dont remember anything about it unfortunately. I will be coming to class tomorrow and i can bring the papers from the hospital, but im having a hard time re-writing my paper. Ive been having moments of confusion and forgetfulness. Ive been resting up until today and im trying to work on my paper and im trying to write it and im having trouble with it. I wont have my paper done and polished in time. I plan on trying to come to school earlier tomorrow and working on it but i don't think it will be finished and im sorry. I wanted to let you know in advance ive been a little emotional as well. If i cant figure something out i have been crying and getting angry. Its lightened up and i do promise i will do my best to control myself. I just thought its better for you to know what happened and why im not exactly myself before class rather than find out during. I hope it is alright to still come to class tomorrow. I don't want to ruin my attendance. Thank you for your time~

What could this mean?

I'm cleaning out my email inbox (I got a message on Saturday morning, after all day Friday of no email service, that my inbox was over the storage limit, so I couldn't send any emails). 


In the cleanup, I've found this message from October 2008 (no wonder the storage limit was exceeded: 20081). I've copied it just as it was: one huge paragraph with no signature (I still don't know who it's from):


Didn't know if i should post this to D2L or just email you, so i emailed you. I am just writing to say i have had some troubles the past 2 weeks in keeping up in other courses as well as this one. This time of year becomes very difficult for me. My allergies and stress levels are through the roof and cause me migraine headaches on a very regular basis. Increased by stress, eating habits and of course allergies. To what causes, i am not exactly sure. I have been working with my doctor to figure out solutions to this but it takes time. I am doing my best to get this project completed by Monday night, and i believe i can do so. I am fortunate enough to have interviewees at my place of employment who know exactly what i have been going through. I don't know if you have ever had a migraine, but i become pretty much immobile and very ill and cannot even think or open my eyes.! I have been experiencing them on a daily basis sometimes two or three times a day for the past two weeks now. I had to take a short break from classes to lower stress on the eyes and the brain. I can barely open my eyes without vomiting let alone think a rational thought other than death. I know you don't need to hear this. And no i am not going to kill myself. But when these headaches are at their peak, is the only time i have seriously thought of suicide. Finally today was the first day i have not had a serious migraine in over two weeks. RELIEF AT LAST! is in my future. I am going to work as hard as i can to get caught up over the next few days. I just wanted to express to you why my online attendance and discussion has fell in the past few weeks. With regular medication i have begun to see some relief and should be able to maintain this course with as much involvement as i had in the first few weeks. Thank you for reading my ridiculously long ramble. I appreciate it.


Here's another email from the same purging: at least this one's signed!


Hi Julie!

I didn't turn in my movie review essay and I really have no excuse except for I'm trying to get over a pretty good procrastination problem and just didn't have enough of it done to want to turn in. Is there anything I can still do to possibly turn that in or what will this do to my grade in the class? I don't really know where I am as far as progress goes in the class and I still need to have my ICO project approved but I am working on it. What can I or should I do?

Thanks!

-Gregg 

better late than never?

In class while my Shakespeare students finish up their midterms tonight.

Why would someone not bring their textbook to an open-book exam? Three students did this tonight. Luckily, my exams have a variety of question types, so they could choose an option that asked them to check their reading journals or class notes instead of the text.

What to say?

Yesterday was our weekly Writers Workshop in Comp 1. The week's assignment was to write a rebuttal argument to an article the students had already chosen, read, and analyzed. One student read an article called "The Conservative Case for Gay Marriage" by Theodore Olson.

Here's what that student submitted as a "rebuttal essay" for workshop:

In the article of “The Conservative Case for Gay Marriage” written by Theodore Olson when he wrote “The simple fact is that there is no good reason why we should deny marriage to same-sex partners” is not true. There is lots of reason why we should deny gay marriage. What if we past the new law of gay marriage and other people with different types of relationship wants to past laws for other cases like group marriage, marriage under 18 years of age, or between a man and boy marriage. I just think that it is not a normal thing to do. I am a “traditional” person and I like to keep most of the things we do the same especially when it comes to marriage. Marriage should always be just between a man and women. What if we past the gay marriage law and in the future most of our population is either gay or lesbian, who is going to continue giving birth to new generations? I know you might be thinking of adopting a child if you have a same-sex partner, but what if the child grows up to just knowing about mainly gay relationships? A child needs to get love from parents, a mother and father, not two mothers or two fathers.

That's it: one paragraph. Most of the other students in workshop said they wanted to see an essay with an intro/body/conclusion. (Yay! They got it!).

One student praised the content by saying and writing, "Content is excellent. I agree 100%. Except the main reason I agree is because I am a CHRISTIAN." I had to give a little lecture about what's acceptable for academic arguments: we use logic and reason in academic arguments; issues of taste and faith are not arguable. Most students seemed to get that.

The student listened to all the feedback and went home to revise the essay. Here's the title of her/his new essay: "Reasons to Deny Gay Marriage." The "essay" has five paragraphs but no logic or evidence.

These sentences appear in the intro: "What if we passed the new law of gay marriage and people with different types of relationship wants to pass laws for other cases like group marriage, marriage under 18 years of age, or between and adult and child marriage? These will change the whole ideal of marriage."

Here's the entire conclusion: "What if we passed the gay marriage law and in the future most of our population is either gay or lesbian, who is going to give birth to new generations? This is a "traditional value", two individual giving birth to new generation. you might think of adopting a child if you have a same-sex partner, but what if the child grows up just knowing mainly about gay relationships? This would probably lead the child to a different path from society. There is always a good reason to deny gay marriage."

(Is it ironic that this student has already disclosed that s/he is divorced?)

Had

For the last few years, I've been noticing that my non-native English speakers, especially the Hmong students, are using the auxiliary verb "had" much more than necessary. It's weird. I wish someone would do a study on it.


Here's the sample paragraph I just read that's making me think about this phenomena:

Since last Wednesday we had gotten another chance to rewrite our paper after the feedback we gave the featured writers that day on their essays. I had read over my paper a few times and added a few details that we had heard during workshop. I had even taken some of my feedback into consideration and included those points into my paper. Since then, I added my opinion where it was needed. I had also added some more details of the writer's techniques she used to write her article. I had explained more on how the author portrayed logos and pathos and went more in depth on those topics.

The problem, of course, is that in this narrative of her/his writing process, the timeframe is hard to figure out. What happened when? The "had"s are supposed to indicate action that happened before the past-tense action. Right away, beginning with "Since last Wednesday," the student indicates a time period. The "had gotten" messes up the idea we had going because of the word "since."


I guess English is hard, but listening to Josh talk about Polish verbs, I'm not sure it's any harder than other languages. I wish I knew what was going on here.


Update: The student is a native English speaker! In fact, she's a very privileged suburban teen. 

What to do?

I have all of my writing students blog about our college's common book. This year, our book is Zeitoun. Most students like the book, which is written with straight-forward, simple, detail-rich prose.


One FYComp student wrote the following post. Sure, the blog is the place for casual, less-formally expressed discussion. And it's clear that this student's first language is not English, which is okay. But there are issues here make me wonder how s/he got into first-year composition:

Loving it The dark night finally arrived. working for five hours staight, Zumtoum uses bukets to catching the water that leaking from the roof, stuffing the broken windows with pillow, and move anything he could to the upstair, God, he must exhusted. I do like the author back and forth to discribs the Zumtoum and Kathy's conversations, so I know what is exactly they are thinking and felling. The story just grabs me into it; I can ever piture evey part of seduation like watching the movie, which is a great movie. The author's words can grab the readers mind, and I believe that is why the book is so succeful. I can't wait to read rest of it.

TheNewSemester

I'm wondering about a policy I borrowed from my pal Carl Gerriets: if students have perfect attendance, they don't have to take the final.


Oddly, this incentive is really popular. But it leads to emails like this one I just received:

Hi Ms. Daniels,

This is Cassie Schultze from your composition 1021-22 class.  I just wanted to let you know that I have a doctors apt. tomorrow at 2:30 in Eagan.  I am planning on being in class and I will try my best to make it on time, but I do not want to rush this appointment.  I was just wondering, if I were to be 10 minutes late, would that effect my attendances?  

Indeed, "would that effect [your] attendances" -- I wonder. No, I don't wonder. Yes, it will affect your attendance.

Another student gets mad in chat

This exchange happened yesterday morning in the online technical writing "online office hours" that I hold three times a week:


Female Student joined the Chat

Julie Daniels joined the Chat

Julie Daniels: Morning, Female

Male Student joined the Chat

Female Student: Morning, Julie.

Female Student: Male, how's your project coming?

Male Student: Eh, it's getting there. Dealing with a lot of other frustrations first though.

Julie Daniels: @Male - frustrations are part of it, I think! :-)

Female Student: @Male, frustrations related to developing your project?

Male Student: Frustrations with everything related to this class. I sent Prof. Daniels a few e-mails.

Julie Daniels: @Male - when did you send me emails??

Male Student: Yestesday about this time.

Julie Daniels: @Male - ah, I don't go online over the weekends, so I'll check my email right now

…

Female Student: I'm off to work. Goodbye.

Female Student left the Chat

Julie Daniels: @Male - are you still there?

Male Student: Yes.

Julie Daniels: So do you have any questions to ask?

Male Student: Not particularly, just wanted to make sure you read my e-mails.

Julie Daniels: Yep, I'm reading them right now!

Julie Daniels: I'm writing responses, too

Julie Daniels: Check your email! :-)

Male Student:  I am. finding some of the important points I made to be "skipped"

Julie Daniels: @Male - what do you mean?

Male Student: For example: "As I mentioned in the syllabus, the way to find out how you're doing with the discussions is to look at the "stars" after your post." I look at my stars and see 4's and 5's. Those star ratings never tell me that I'm getting half my points cut.

Julie Daniels: I responded to your email sentence-by-sentence, just about!

Julie Daniels: @Male - well, the half points came because you only answered half the question

Male Student: And when was I gonna find out that that was why? It happened for 4 weeks.

Male Student: And I couldn't look at my grades to see the trend because as far as I could see my grades weren't updated.

Male Student: As far as I was concerned I was answering the questions properly when I receiving 4-5 stars on each of my posts.

Male Student: I also was certain that I was answering all of the required questions. Maybe it was poorly emphasized in my writing style, I don't know.

Male Student: I have a tendency to, when given a couple related questions, to answer them at the same time.

Julie Daniels: @Male - I believe we had two questions in discussion for weeks 3, 4 and 5, not all weeks

Male Student: Alright, yeah, it was actually 3 weeks. 2 3 and 4.

Julie Daniels: @Male - yes, perhaps your answers are not as fully developed or sustained as they could be: specifics matter, and strong discussion posts will look more like the examples in the syllabus

Male Student: Well, how am I supposed to know I was doing something wrong?

Julie Daniels: Repeating oneself in a discussion post doesn't really show that the student is "discussing" or even really reading the prompts fully

Male Student: What *I* saw was 4/5 stars filled in next to my post.

Julie Daniels: @Male - well, I guess you know now! Or you could have read other students' posts

Male Student: I know now? Really? That's it?

Julie Daniels: @Male - yep, and so that would be 9 points out of 10

Male Student: It took HALF the semester to find out.

Julie Daniels: @Male - well, I'm not sure what else to tell you; an online course isn't an independent study, so the instructor doesn't communicate one-on-one with every student . . .

Male Student: yeah, 9 points out of 10. Or so I thought. Then i found out I get 4. But I don't find out I got only a 4 until 2 weeks later.

Julie Daniels: . . . the only tools we have are the course tools

Julie Daniels: and it sounds like you're using them . . .

Male Student: I can't use them.

Male Student: I can't look at my grades to see if something is going wrong because my grades keep staying way out of date.

Julie Daniels: @Male - the grades should be up-to-date . . . ?

Male Student: Recall that the same day I inquired about my low discussion points I also was waiting for my instructions to be graded.

Julie Daniels: @Male - yes, I recall

Male Student: so if that's not even up, how can I think my discussion posts are?

Julie Daniels: So are you able to move forward with discussions now?

Male Student: Especially when the point values I'm expecting aren't what I'm getting.

Julie Daniels: Have you checked in for this week's discussion yet?

Male Student: I can't even move forward with this class.

Male Student: This is completely ridiculous.

Julie Daniels: @Male - ??

Julie Daniels: I have to say that I don't understand your comment here: you have all your assignments with a ton of feedback from me -- why can't you move forward?

Julie Daniels: (I'm very confused!)

Male Student: I told you why. You skipped a lot of details, and didn't do much to combine how different things add up to very large problems.

Male Student: I'm already down to a 68% in the class, and when I keep losing points and not having any idea why until half the semester later, I can't do crap to fix that.

Male Student: And of course when you say "Well, now you know for the future" with only a couple weeks left, that's just stupid.

Male Student: I had ZERO way to figuring it out before.

Male Student: So if I have to suffer because I can't actually look into something, that's completely unfair.

Julie Daniels: @Male - well, my feedback on documents is the way to figure things out

Male Student: How does that help my discussions?

Julie Daniels: the grades tool is an insufficient way to figure things out

Julie Daniels: You're right that you can't change the past -- can't change the past discussion -- but you can do better in the future!

Male Student: Plus, you're forgetting that I also noted in the e-mail several poorly worded things in the assignment descriptions.

Male Student: Are you freakin' serious?

Male Student: Just so you know, I've talked to other people about how all this is going, I've actually been recommended to talk to the head of department.

Julie Daniels: Did you get a chance to read my responses to your email?

Julie Daniels: Did you get a chance to read my comments on your assignments?

Male Student: Yeah. I'm still waiting for the other half where you respond to where I have a point.

Julie Daniels: @Male - I sent as many responses as I knew to send; I don't know what you mean by "the other half"

Male Student: You skipped responding to anything where I actually made my point.

Julie Daniels: I guess you'll have to send me another email, then, because I responded to everything that I thought you asked

Male Student: To use this sentence again "As I mentioned in the syllabus, the way to find out how you're doing with the discussions is to look at the "stars" after your post. "  When I *LOOK* and *SEE* a 4 star and a 5 star post every week, I *BELIEVE* I am doing a 9 star job.

Male Student: And then I get a 4.

Male Student: But I can't see that I got a 4 til 3 weeks later.

Male Student: So I keep doing what I do the next two week cause I think I'm getting 9 stars, which is pretty good.

Julie Daniels: @Male - yes, I remember that you asked this question already, and I responded that some weeks we had two discussion questions to respond to

Male Student: So then the next two weeks I do my same 9 star job. After all 3 weeks, I find out I get 12 points.

Male Student: You see the issue?

Male Student: There was no indication anywhere that I wasn't doing a 9 star job.

Male Student: So there was no way for me to know that I wasn't doing things right.

Julie Daniels: I guess I could say that the indication was in the number of questions that showed up in each discussion space . . .

Julie Daniels: . . . and you're right that you must have missed that indication about what the discussion each week consisted of

Male Student: Like I said, as far as I could consciously tell, I was answering them.

Male Student: And getting 4/5 stars.

Male Student: Please, stop avoiding the fact that there was no way for me to see that I wasn't doing it right.

Male Student: If I'm taking a math class where I'm LEARNING math, do you think the teacher is doing their job if they don't tell me that I'm doing it wrong?

Male Student: Likewise, if you're not giving any indication of me doing my assignments wrong, and it's apparently a consistent issue, are you really doing your job of teaching me the right technique?

Male Student: Or am I paying to not learn?

Julie Daniels: @Male - I'm not sure how to answer your messages here, other than to say what I have said

Male Student: Why aren't you sure how to answer? Because it would admit flaws in the curriculum?

Julie Daniels: There are many ways in our class for students to see how they're doing: the grades tool is just one (my feedback is another, reading other students posts, reading examples, analyzing the samples, reading the textbooks, etc.)

Male Student: None of those address the SPECIFIC example I'm presenting.

Male Student: Except perhaps reading others' posts, though I can quite easily counter that.

Male Student: What if they also lost half points for also answering only one of the questions? I can't see that they did.

Male Student: So if I see another 5 start post similar to mine, then I can't say I did mine wrong, now can I?

Julie Daniels: @Male - your message here indicate to me that you're frustrated and angry

Julie Daniels: But I can't do anything about the past at this point

Julie Daniels: And I do want to remind you that these chats are archived, in case that makes a difference to you

Male Student: See? You're avoiding it again.

Male Student: Have you noticed that?

Male Student: You wanted specifics, and details right? Well I presented them.

Male Student: And now you're trying to avoid what I'm talking about.

Julie Daniels: @Male - I am also thinking that you're misunderstanding something: the grades percentage might be sending you the wrong message . . .

Male Student: Percentage?

Julie Daniels: you mentioned that you're seeing 68%?

Male Student: Yeah. That's points earned / points I've tried to earn * 100

Julie Daniels: I think that's out of the total points possible for the whole course, which is not done yet . . .

Male Student: My own math.

Male Student: No, that's not total points.

Male Student: That's total so far.

Julie Daniels: Ah, okay: your own math!

Julie Daniels: Then never mind -- I was just trying to figure things out

Julie Daniels: Looks like you missed a quiz, missed blog post points -- but in other assignments, you're doing okay

Julie Daniels: The first progress memo was low, but your next two should be high, right?

Male Student: Probably not. Sounds like no matter how hard I try I lose points over something not explained clearly.

Male Student: Though I do have an excuse that won't be considered, that being the fact that I've already been yelled at for being on the computer too much and thus forcing me to not be able to use it as much.

Male Student: Of course, I'd also have an extra 5 points on the blog posts if it my 14 hour blackout was considering.

Julie Daniels: @Male - now that you know you need to complete three exercises on the progress memos, will you be able to do so?

Male Student: I know that I am very tempted to take the suggestion of talking to the dean.

Male Student: er, not the dead, head of english.

Male Student: Because let's face it, if someone isn't doing something right to demonstrate what they should be learning in the class, and the teacher doesn't tell me, the teacher isn't teaching.

Male Student: and since that's what the student pays for, they're not getting what they paid for.

Julie Daniels: @Male - I've just done the math for you, too, and I get that you've earned 344 points out of a possible 465 at this point in the semester . . .

Julie Daniels: That's 74%

Julie Daniels: not 68%

Julie Daniels: So maybe you're doing better than you think you are?

Male Student: I just added, foudn 515 points..

Male Student: Though this math is once again avoiding the discussion.

Julie Daniels: Maybe you used the wrong totals -- for Discussions, for instance, you'd use the total of 50 rather than 80 since we've just had five weeks, not 8

Male Student: Did that.

Julie Daniels: And for progress memos, I didn't use that total at this point because only the highest two memos count toward your grade

Male Student: Also only used 40 for blogs.

Julie Daniels: right, 40 for blog posts

Julie Daniels: so where do you suppose the extra 50 points come from?

Male Student: But like I said, this is a red herring.

Julie Daniels: I am not sure that I see it as a red herring since you began this discussion with unhappiness related to your grade percentage . . .

Julie Daniels: . . . so I thought I'd double-check for you

Male Student: I'm the student that only did half his calc 2 final because he knew that's all he needed for the only grade he was gonna get.

Male Student: er, calc 1 final.

Julie Daniels: the other big issue for you seems to be that you missed some weeks of the two-question discussion posts . . . and I can't do anything about that miss at this point

Male Student: Well, why didn't something happen then?

Julie Daniels: Pardon me? I don't understand your question

Male Student: I'm not learning if I don't get told I'm doing it wrong.

Male Student: If I say 2 time 2 is 5, and my math teacher never tells me I'm doing it wrong, did I actually learn math?

Julie Daniels: But you weren't doing anything "wrong" -- you were just missing some things (discussion questions, a quiz)

Male Student: Isn't that doing something wrong? It results is 55% of my grade being lost.

Julie Daniels: students get to choose what they ignore in an online class -- because it's not an independent study, and because I don't double-check every student's access to every item in our course, I can't tell you that you've chosen to ignore something . . .

Male Student: I chose to ignore? Way to blame the student.

Julie Daniels: But that's your choice to ignore the questions --

Male Student: Are you sure you didn't choose to see if one sentence answered two questions? Maybe you just skimmed through it?

Julie Daniels: I'm not "blaming" anyone, I'm just saying that students make choices

Male Student: As do teachers.

Julie Daniels: As do humans! :-)

Male Student: So like I said, are you sure you didn't *choose* not to see if one sentence answered 2 question?

Julie Daniels: @Male - no, I read the student posts thoroughly

Male Student: Or that instead of missing a question I just didn't have much of a response for it, so instead of losing not only half points for questions but also half points for my responses to others, it might have just been a 2 point deduction?

Male Student: Out of curiosity, do you still have access to the responses?

Male Student: Or discussions rather.

Julie Daniels: Anyway, I am going to sit quietly for a while to see if anyone joins the last 20 minutes of our chat --

Julie Daniels: I've said as much to you as I can at this point

Male Student: As much as you're willing to.

Male Student: I've shown this discussion to others already, they agree, you're avoiding the issue.

Male Student: Unanswered questions: Male Student: If I say 2 time 2 is 5, and my math teacher never tells me I'm doing it wrong, did I actually learn math?    

Male Student: Out of curiosity, do you still have access to the responses?

Male Student: Now off to find an e-mail.

Male Student left the Chat